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One of the few "Moderate Muslims" worth listening to...

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30 Jan 2015 15:48 #237838 by Snoopster
Maajid Nawaz.

If anyone is qualified to be a spokesperson for "moderate Muslims" against Islamic fascism and its threat to secularism, it is this man.  He's educated, intelligent, and advocates from the unique view of a former extremist.


How Orwell's 'Animal Farm' Led A Radical Muslim To Moderation

When Maajid Nawaz was growing up in Essex, England, in the 1990s, the son of Pakistani parents, he first found his voice of rebellion through American hip-hop.

"It gave me a feeling that my identity could matter — and did matter — growing up as a British Pakistani who was facing racism from whiter society," Nawaz tells Fresh Air's Terry Gross, "but also confusion about where my family was from and not really fitting into either culture."

At age 16, Nawaz was transformed from a disaffected British teenager to an Islamist recruiter when he joined the Islamist group Hizb ut-Tahrir. Nawaz continued his college studies and spent a year abroad in Egypt, where he continued his recruiting. As a result, he was imprisoned for four years, starting in 2002.

It was while in prison, surrounded by several prominent jihadist leaders, that Nawaz realized he wanted to take a different path. He was reading George Orwell's Animal Farm and came to a new understanding of "what happens when somebody tries to create a utopia."

"I began to join the dots and think, 'My God, if these guys that I'm here with ever came to power, they would be the Islamist equivalent of Animal Farm," Nawaz says.

He says he began to see that it's "impossible to create a utopia."

"I'm living up close and seeing [the radicals'] everyday habits and lifestyle, I thought, 'My God, I wouldn't trust these guys in power,' because when I called it, back then, and said, 'If this caliphate, this theocratic caliphate, was ever established, it would be a nightmare on earth,' " Nawaz says.

A year after his release, at the age of 24, Nawaz left the Islamist group and its ideology. He later co-founded the think tank Quilliam, which is dedicated to countering extremist beliefs.

"Now, when we see what ISIL [the self-proclaimed Islamic State] is doing in the name of this theocratic caliphate, I believe I have been vindicated that these guys, any of them, if they ever got to power, they would be committing mass atrocities," Nawaz says.

Nawaz is the author of the memoir Radical: My Journey Out of Islamist Extremism. He's now running for Parliament in England as a Liberal Democrat party candidate.


www.npr.org/player/v2/mediaPlayer.html?a...77442344&m=377495115

www.npr.org/2015/01/15/377442344/how-orw...muslim-to-moderation








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30 Jan 2015 15:50 #237839 by Snoopster
Mr. Nawaz educates poster Ketchim (fake British accent and all). 8)


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30 Jan 2015 15:55 #237840 by Snoopster
Nawaz eviscerates that repugnant Muslim fascist, Anjem Choudary. 8)


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30 Jan 2015 16:31 #237844 by Snoopster
Briliant 'TEDtalks' in 2011.

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30 Jan 2015 16:35 #237846 by Allison
I hope Nawaz wins his seat in Parliament!
Those of us who have suffered racism, and have been marginalized within our own country often seek change via radical ideas, and joining radical groups. We want to strike out against those who have harmed our loved ones, and us.
We may not initially see it as trying to create utopia here on earth. However, that is what we are actually doing. For example, I used to identify and commiserate with the Black Panther movement until I discovered how they treated female followers. Then I decided to work within our society's system to effect social change the best way I could.

Whenever we try to create paradise here on earth we are refusing to face reality. Paradise is for the afterlife.

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30 Jan 2015 16:44 #237847 by pattycake

That's not true.

Paradise is right before our eyes.

And those who try to create it simply don't see it.

You can't create what's already there.

The fact that you can't see it and why you can't see it is the whole problem.

In ancient Mythology, this social phenomenon is described as Horus going blind.

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30 Jan 2015 16:58 #237848 by Snoopster
This video is for cartoon lover Ketchim (who was the butthurt Muslim fat guy in glasses in the video).  ::LOL::

A good discussion in the days following the Charlie Hebdo massacre on the topic "Does Freedom of Speech give the right to offend".  The best bit is at the end from about the 19:52 mark.
8)








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30 Jan 2015 17:25 - 30 Jan 2015 17:35 #237849 by pattycake

He's right on the money about animal farm and trying to create a utopia.

Though beyond that, he's not saying anything to get excited about.

He's just trying to draw public confidence in him.

The fact that he was formerly one of them doesn't mean anything.

It doesn't mean that he has a solution to the age old problem.

Historically,

Many upcoming leaders were formerly associated with parties or groups that they spoke against to build public trust in them. So at this point, he's just a chip off the old block. In the animal farm, there has to be a cattle herder, which is what he appears to be at this point. Just another cattle herder.
Last edit: 30 Jan 2015 17:35 by pattycake.

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  • TRINIDADDY
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30 Jan 2015 22:18 - 30 Jan 2015 22:23 #237884 by TRINIDADDY
.

That's a pattern seen throughout history. Typically, the only "progressive" group which can stand up to a big "oppressive" group, is one which must itself become increasingly repressive. In the French Revolution, for example, the revolutionaries rightfully stood up to the monarchs of Europe. This was progressive. The monarchs of Europe, however, ganged-up against the revolutionaries, forcing the revolutionaries to become increasingly paranoid and militant, leading directly to the dictatorship of Napoleon.

But notice the writer of the original poster's article talks about travelling to Egypt and of joining Hizb ut-Tahrir. He also talks about the "necessity of combating extremism". Notice that not once does he talk about where extremism comes from, what causes it, and who is arming or funding these groups.

Egypt overthrew its monarchs and became a secular, increasingly progressive democratic nation in the 1960s. The UK, France and Israel - especially from the infamous Protocol of Sevres onwards - henceforth set about deliberately screwing it up. They kept attacking President Nasser (who dismantled feudalism and monarchy in Egypt) and kept arming and funding the nascent Muslim Brotherhood and other extreme factions to take him out.

There was no such thing as "extremist caliphate pushing Islamic nutbags" in the 1960s and 1970s, anywhere in the Middle East. It is Western geo-political manoevering which created and funded these groups, just as France is today funding and backing Boko-Haram in Nigeria via Chad to get at Nigerian oil. None of these "terrorists" were around in the past. "Islam" didn't create them.

The infamous group pushing for a "muslim caliphate" today is ISIS (or IS or ISL), a tiny, irrelevent, insignificant handful of nutjobs armed and funded by the US through their puppet dictatorship, Saudi Arabia. Hizb ut-Tahrir is the British equivalent of ISIS, backed by England to usurp Assad in Syria. Assad himself is only in power because the US, from 1949 onwards, repeatedly couped the first democratically elected leaders of Syria.

If there was no western meddling in Islamic nations following World War 2, all these countries would have secular, modern, democratic nations. If the West didn't put Saddam in power and didnt arm him to attack Iran, Iraq would not be the hell-hole it is today. If the US and UK didn't bolster the Saudi monarchy for the past 90 years, Saudi Arabia would be an increasingly secular nation. Instead we sell them guns to crush any democratic movement that pops up. We are turning these countries into barbaric hellholes by subverting progress, not Islam. Left alone, Islam evolves just like Christianity; it bends to modern, liberal values.

People like Snoops who complain about "extremist muslims" are totally rediculous. The vast majority of muslims both detest extremists and are the ones who chiefly suffer at the hands of this extremism. What superficial moaning about "muslim extremists" really does is create a pretext for more meddling in foreign countries (to fix those unruly muslims, of course), which in turn only causes more crazy extremists.

I mean, really, what's the point of complaining about the behaviour of Islamic people in Iraq, Sryia and Somlia when these countries have been turned into mad war zones by outsiders? How do you expect these people to act? If you destroy law, order and government, of course people are going to act nuts.

The fastest way to "modernise" a religion is to set up a stable, democratic nation where the local religion is forced to abide by modern, secular, liberal laws. This is the opposite of what the West does. We DESTROY and DESTABALZE stable, democratic nations with Islamic majorities, thereby causing the problems we pretend to b**** about. The moment places like Egypt, Syria and Iraq became modern democracies we immediately f**ked them up. Don't b**** about your Karma.
Last edit: 30 Jan 2015 22:23 by TRINIDADDY.

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30 Jan 2015 22:34 #237885 by pattycake

Exactly.

And that's something that the cattle herder will never utter a word about. He will never say where anything comes from or what causes it. And he always tries to start a movement on his own. He's never in alliance with anybody else. That's how to tell that he's just another cattle herder. They always make some strong points, which is what people want to hear, but never hits home on where the problem is coming from and what causes it. I listen to these orators speak when they make strong points, but never do I take what they say seriously because I know the universal law.

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