MY sECOND fINAL pOST: wHAT sOCIALISM MEANS TO ME IN VERY BRIEF

My issue is that you have made an "anti-capitalist" post which nevertheless advocates the preservation of the "doctrines of capitalism". You then argue that these things should be preserved because the "doctrines of Marxism" are "too rigid" (Marxism has no doctrines, it is simply a scientific critique of capitalism).

If you want to "preserve money" and "preserve private businesses run for personal profit", and do so in such a way that abolishes the negative knock-on-effects of all this, all the while still calling yourself "anti-capitalist", you need to create very complex new systems and laws. Many monetary reformers have attempted to design such things (read about economist Silvio Gesell's experiment in a town called Worgl), but none have really fully convinced me.

Unless you have robust and well-thought out plans, all real-world reforms have no effect and degenerate back into business-as-usual.

Hitler didn't "take over the bank". The German Central bank was nationalised long before Hitler came into power, and it never turned its back on paying its debts to the local and foreign mega-businesses whom it owed interest to. Hitler was not some "banking reformer"; that is internet conspiracy.

The most in-depth look at the Nazi economy (and banking in Germany) is Adam Tooze's "The Wages of Destruction". To summarise, Hitler got the economy rolling by building lots of guns, tanks, bombs, taking out lots of loans and forcing the entire German workforce to mobilise for the war effort. Germany suddenly started making lots of sh*t.

And the inflation was "cured" before Hitler came into power. The Weimar Republic abandoned the "inflating" currency and rebranded Germany with a new currency. It then began massive state projects, which employed millions. With "faith" restored, the economy started rolling again. Then Hitler comes into power.

Of course, I agree, but the moment you resort to using money and have people running private businesses for profit, you end up with a system of debt servitude, and so all the usual class heirarchies and old-school problems of capitalism. Only serious thinking and planning can overcome those problems. "Spontaneity" does nothing.


But Chavezism is all about bureaucracy, and Chavezism will fail (it already has) and Venezuelans will beg for purer capitalism (they already are). Why? because Chavez never really offered socialism and never really figured out how to operate outside the market.

All "socialist" policies which operate within the "free market" must be paid for by money. Even if this money is issued by a "socialist" central bank nationalised by the state, this leads to escalating debts, forcing the state to milk and exploit its populace for cash to pay for the very "socialism" it "benevolently" gives out. Once debt based money used for "profit" is your primary means of conducting transactions, all high-minded projects will fail.

Once again TD , your knowledge of political economic theory is outstanding !

quod erat demonstrandum 

It is like you have spoken out my mind. One problem though, there is no perfect ideology. Both systems have their flaws and even socialism supports laziness. Everybody should reap what eat what they plant, not jumping on someone else sweat.

Maps took his "ball and bat" and gone home?


AGAIN???  ::LOL::

clear your head mooray...that is what happens now.  look and see who do all the real work in the world that pays everybody.  it is  not the rich.  all they have done is to create systems that tap into the  labour of all who work and bleed it constantly..24/7.  they do not do a  lick of work save trickery and bloodthirsty exploitation.

look at the wicb and tell me what kind of WORK they do..how much work they do..and if that work directly brings revenue into the wicb.  and when you get to the bottom of it you will see that all they have in place is a scoop..like taxation and debt interest..a system to funnel into their pockets the revenue generated by the players from cricket they play all over the world.

the wicb..the bureaucracy does no essential work relative to the revenue generating flow into our cricket..not a lick of any such thing.  they are entirely parasitic.  if the wicb is removed this minute the cricket would go on.  the players themselves can organize all that is necessary for the cricket..and where they cant they can farm it out to agencies that do such work for one time payment..pay when needed/used..and not to maintain a huge standing bureaucracy to do irregular work that uses up most of the revenue to pay themselves.

socialism on the contrary makes it essential for EVERYONE TO  WORK FOR THEIR  LIVING AND GIVES THEM THE OPPORTUNITY TO DO SO. 
socialism..the Popular Democracy..removes all the parasitic exploitation and leaves the principle of the development and maintainance of society as the process by which we  all survive..so that it is in the collective interest to ensure that society functions at the best level we can achieve as we go.

IT IS NOW, CURRENTLY IN THIS CAPITALIST SOCIETY THAT WE LIVE IN...THAT THERE IS TOTAL  PARASITISM...IN THAT THOSE WHO ARE THE RICHEST AND OCCUPY ALL THE SOCIAL POWER....DO NOT WORK AT ALL BUT SIMPLY SIT BACK AND BLEED TO DEATH ALL THOse WHO WORK..INDEED FORCED TO WORK...BY FINANCIAL SYSTEMS, BACKED UP BY THEIR MONOPOLY ON FORCE/VIOLENCE...THE POLICE/MILITARY STATE

you are dead wrong Mooray.

and with that I  leave allyuh website..hopefully never to return.  there is  no more reason to

"The notion that 'to get you must give' is the favourite absurdity of capitalism."  - Guy Debord

"Less work, more useful activity." - JG Ballard

"Reap what you sow"


you want to plant rice and reap gold??????????????????

The rich did not get overnight.  Plenty of sweat and tears go into a starting business!!