MY sECOND fINAL pOST: wHAT sOCIALISM MEANS TO ME IN VERY BRIEF

THE END OF CAPITALISM DOES NOT MEAN THE END OF BUSINESS AND INVESTMENT, OWNERSHIP OF ONES PROPERTY, MAKING MONEY OR ANYTHING OF THE KIND.  IT MEANS THE END OF SOCIAL MONOPOLY, THE END OF WAR AS A PROFIT MAKING MACHINE, RACISM, CLASS-ISM... THE END OF ACTUAL AND POTENTIAL SOCIAL TOTALITARIANISM BY MINORITY SOCIAL/RACIAL CLASSES.

the rise of popular social control means to me, the development and elongation of relative structural modes or popular control, what ever works in any particular location and culture, as devised impromptu and effected by the people, to meet their existential needs and requirements as they go.  as far as I see it, forms of business activity will be needed and pursued period, all along the reform and revolutionary way.

what we may not understand is that capitalism is not business at all.  capitalism is corruption and monopoly and social control that allows the mass of the people no chance but what the dictator puts in front of us, and convinces us what it is not. there is no freedom in capitalism only social control... jails and laws that cover and criminalize every aspect of life so that any one conceivably can get charged for just rolling out of bed on any morning, a cop is nearby to see

Capitalism is taxes and financial enslavement..a more comprehensive form of enslavement than actual field slavery.

capitalism is war that generates great financial profit and control of population numbers at the same time..while offering opportunity in the social breakdown and recovery after the war to institute draconian totalitarian social control.

capitalism is police state and standing military as popular threat to popular freedom and always war abroad..and heavy taxation on the people to pay for the war, the police state and everything else.  in this way the peoples labour by way of its monetary equivalent is alienated from them and comes back to control them by way of the police state.  the people pay for this..for their own enslavement.

only popular social control can eliminate the police state and elongate a social reality that precludes any potential of the return of a police state in time.  only popular social control can institute the social framework of democracy, develop its principles and way of life that comes to socialize the people in democracy, and continually deepen and reproduce itself as society goes. 

only popular democracy removes the insecurity and exploitation inherent in exploitative society, that results in the routine hostility of regular social relations among the ordinary people day to day. 

and given what we now know of the human story, the democratic life,  is the kind of life we must develop in order to wean the human focus away from from this stupid, disastrously focused life we now live, onto the real, essential focus of survival essential for humanity:  how do we as a species survive indefinitely in an evolutionary universe.

we are not now conscious generally of our true state in the universe and what it will take for us to make it through.  that requires the focus of 8 billion people and more to accomplish as we go.  the way we now live is entirely inadequate to that task and we are way behind time.  it is crucial that humanity revolutionizes the social life bring all on stream, and focus on the real job at hand as described above.  and in the process we must find structures to utilize fully each stage we go through, clearing  the way for more development. 

business is an essential and efficient way to carry forward development..but not  capitalism.  business is an essential social tool of advancement... not capitalism..business harnessed to the goal of social development.

socialist life is not Soviet Russia's example.  the Russian revolution was socialts but it turned into its opposite under what it became under the usurpers Lenin, Trotsky and Stalin, and the dictatorship of the Russian communist party. 

socialism has no use for political parties or any bureaucratic institution that has the legs to grow into parasitic social domination/dictatorship. 

socialism has no use for banking save as a factor of utility on any street corner that can be accessed to store valuables if they cannot be stored at home... or carry out the simple banking functions we need currently until such times as even such as these street corner banks are no longer necessary..as easily replaced as they are even now by computer functions.  but such functions not under the control of any large entity but by small community businesses

socialism is not to be feared.  Socialist democracy is the next social evolutionary step humanity MUST take.. or die off if we cannot achieve that evolution...or revolution.  minority social control is not consistent with human survival.  we must democratize or die.

that is the point of all my posing all along..to help revolution, to promote revolutionary social change..to help expose reality if I could.  I like money, I like property, I like freedom, I like to breathe-survival.

I like to think that I will leave a world for my children to live on in in perpetuity. 

I know that capitalism guarantees none of that so far as these can be guaranteed in nature by social organization and the work of society. 

capitalism is social control by a minority social group that is now also ethnic, or as we call it race,  that, bent on its own survival as a minority control class,  does what it will to humanity in order to control humanity...to preserve its domination.  in there, there is no security or future for me  period..nor any of us as far as I can see.  so starting with my own self-interest/survival I have worked my way outward to the way society can survive, that guarantees my own survival, hence my socialism/marxism/democracy...pik anyone same thing.

that is what I have been doing here..my point and purpose..  I don't give a phuck about race and skin colour..nor social class, money and military as arbiter of any existential worth..human and environment.  I got passed that collection of arbitrary idiotic and false intellectual/ideological dogma and religious/emotional/belief sh!t,  many years ago.  there is no superiority among human groups no individual.  nature is the arbiter of all existence and there is no human power comparable to or equal to natural power.  all humans die so far.  all humans on our level of existence are as fragile, weak relatively, and die off just like that.  we are no more secure in our life than the ants we mash under our feet as we walk along.

for whatever purpose we are in existence, it is clear we must improve and stay in existence to carry it out.  that is what we have been doing from the start.  what I seek to do is no different, in my way on my level help to secure the existence of humanity as we go.

I have no time anymore with ketchim's unceasing unproductive dead old and backward crap.  the future does not lie with the wicb in cricket, with monarchy, with capitalism and the capitalists in general social life.  there is no future with undemocratic social structures and life divided into social classes.  horizontally structured society is the way forward.  there is no alternative to that

that was my point and purpose.  its time for me to move on now.  there is nothing more for me here..and nothing more for me to do here!

ta ta ::LOL::  good job chairman.  I am hay to have met you and Bally.  you are 2 decent guys.  TD is a sound poster..a guy with a good mind.  he shud post more.  I am sorry snoops left.  he is a funny guy guy, mixed up.  but he has ability and can sort himself out, come to a broader, inclusive perspective on life

all the best

Have a nice time in Utopia, TOBAGO !

hope you find comfort in your maternal side Relatives 

AS USUAL..YOU INTO MY BUSINESS..YOU YOU APPEAR TO HAVE AN ARRAY OF SPIES AROUND MY LIFE.

I don't even know who you are you know.  and I will never know you personally. not keen to. had enuff of your non sense anyway ::LOL:: ::LOL:: ::LOL::

your 2nd final post?

was there a 1st one....did I miss it?

are you leaving the forum??

why?

Sooooo.....Maps gone?

his Nic has been deleted?

nice to have met you VB.  you have always read like a very regular and decent person

I am afraid I cant ignore kechim in the general circumstance so it is best to move on.

the general circumstance is one of total destruction of what was once west indies and its potential for progressive development, by the imposition on the society of a hell bent neo liberalism that has destroyed the cricket for one thing, and has rendered west indians more stupid than ever, ignorant and less and less capable of dealing effectively with their reality.

in cricket we have what must be a kind of fruit..or fruition..the blossoming of a flower of the crap that has become the wicb since 1995. 

we have in the emergence of Whycliff Cameron and Wavel Hinds a devil's duo..two of the absolute worst, most destructive human beings ever to have run anything in the west indies.  they are the thing itself..neo liberalism in human ideal as represented by human beings.  these two have brought west indies cricket to its nadir, its lowest point ever.  and as long as the wicb holds sway our cricket will never rise again.  that you can take to the bank.

it is in the interest of the wicb bureaucracy to hold the cricket in check, to establish a game they can control totally, in perpetuity forever so they can rape it..and make it stand still to be raped.  there must be no opposition at all so the game has been cleansed of any and all players who can fight the wicb.  and they have jigged the WIPA to effect a permanent control by Wavell Hinds so that the union is now homogenized or pasteurized like milk..will never again be a voice for the players.  and they have selected only inexperienced youngsters who can be no threat to the wicb.

their point is to secure the wicb domination and whatever they want from and by that domination..clearly at the expense of everyone else involved.  what they do in fact want is the wealth they can clean out of the cricket on which they have built their lives.

and also at the same time they have gutted the cricket of any and all collective import for the west indian masses of people.  the cricket will no longer be a beacon of organization and collective identity for the west indian people.  all of that is dead..killed off by the black elitists who have acceded to the wicbc/wicb, in the passing of the control from the white planter class that created the cricket.

then the jackass that Cameron is, he cancelled the west indies tour of India without exploring the possibilities open to continuing the tour.  he never spoke to the Indian authorities before he cancelled the tour..to hear what they had to say.  if he had they might have told him they would sue so that he should try his best to reconcile with the players or send an A team.

and we all have seen the position ketchim has taken on this issue here..one of the most intractable and backward positions I have even seen on issues relative to the west indies and west indians.  I mean it is utter nonsense to be against the players in this issue, especially Bravo and Pollard.  it was not up to them..they did not precipitate the issue, did not start it.  they were affected parties by actions taken by Cameron and WIPA.  they were reactive not initiatory in the issue.

ketchim keeps going on and on against these 2 west indian men, as if they committed capital crimes. 

but they are not responsible in the matter at hand at all. they are blameless.  it is a wicb/wipa mess..a mess they conceived in hell, Skameron and wHinds.  they are the ones who did everything..the active ones with plan and policy against the interest of the players.  the players merely reacted in self defense.  and for this they committed an unpardonable act for the wicb and for ketchim.

absolutely no fact, like for eg the fact that the players had no power to cancel the tour..means anything to ketchim.  the players struck the  wicb when the wicb refused to meet with them to trash out the pay issue..leaving the wicb with the options it had for making sure a tour took place.  India cant tell west indies which team to send on tour.  the wicb could have replaced the striking players with another team..like the wicbc did during the Packer imbroglio.

these absolute and irrefutable facts do not sway Ketchim at all, from his rediculous insistence on causation by Pollard and Bravo.

so what am I in then...a mad house or something, where this absolute insanity persists and persists on the board, with others even agreeing with the dam nonsense ::confused::  and it never stops..stuff like that.  so what about Bravo and Pollard as decent young west indian men.  must they continue under ketchim's browbeating and lies about them all along the way ::confused:: ::confused::

when I beat up on figures I do so fairly.  I beat up on those who deserve to be beaten on the issues.  If I am corrected so I stand. if I am wrong according to the facts I change.  who the hell am I to stand in the face of truth

but no one here does likewise..recognize and accept truth where it is contrary to whatever program they have in mind.....

but I have had enuff of this.  I cant go on and on dealing with this utter nonsense...insanity really

also the cricket itself and the wicb.  I have had enuff of that too.  there is a clear break in what used to be and what is currently... and it is no longer my show.  so be it. 

my time is done! whatever is west indies now belongs to Ketchim.  he is welcome to it.  the cricket is as  lunatic as his discussion here is lunatic and it is bound to end badly for the region.  but it is no longer my show.

all the best

If you define "the end of capitalism" as "socialism", then yes, socialism means "the end of business and making money". Indeed, the end goal of socialism is the total abolition of money. You can't be anti-capitalist and pro-money; the two are incompatible.

Historically, socialism never works in the real world because "socialists" are always still capitalists. They're always still operating businesses for private profit and always still beholden to money. Even in Soviet Russia and "communist China", "democratically controlled businesses" - the kind of stuff you like - were merely socially or group owned businesses which nevertheless competed against each other for monetary profit. The end result of this isn't "anti-capitalist", it's just a different type of share-holding.

This is what you seem to be advocating. But socialism is supposed to be much more radical.

See:

tinylink.net/ecy

If you mean "business" as a "commercial activity" done for the aim of "making a profit" then this is "capitalism". Capitalism is a system in which social relations are based around the exchange of commodities (ie business), the private ownership of the means of production and the exploitation of wage labour, all with the aim of engendering private profit.

I don't understand why everyone takes everything Ketchim says so personally. Ketchim is clearly 1/3 clown, 1/3 madman and 1/3 the Guyanese Loki. And the opinions of Guyanese aren't supposed to matter to superior Trinis anyway.

Hopefully Maps will be back when W.I whip Sri Lanka (fingers crossed).

Hey, I agree with you in many things but also disagree with you in others. But debate is something natural and is part of being in a community that shares the same passions, although not the same point of views. I’ve read many of your posts and like your style, don’t see why you have to leave the forum. I am new here and did not have the chance to know you better, but I know that many people here do not want you to leave. You definitely have something to say and many things to teach and learn. I hope you reconsider this, especially of you are only leaving because someone else provokes you.